One of the most frequent questions I get from writing and sharing online is “How do I get a Heidi?” And, listen–if I knew how to clone my best friend and sell her, I’d be rich. I encourage my kids to be careful when using “best” to define one friend so as not to make other friends feel bad and to keep friendship circles wide and free, but I’m almost 40, and it is a well-known and accepted fact in our circles that our friendship has earned its title. I can’t imagine life without Heidi, and everyone who knows our friendship knows that “best” isn’t about exclusivity but rather years of stories, love and support that have granted us the highest honor of friendship…the best of the best. If I’m told a secret prefaced with “Don’t tell anyone,” I clarify with, “Wait–I can’t tell Heidi?”, and the answer is always the same: “Well of course you’ll tell Heidi. Everyone already assumes that.”
Last week, we interviewed each other over dinner and drinks, answering some frequently asked questions on friendship, supporting women and what we love most about our relationship.
The waiter came by at one point after noticing the questioning and typing going on and asked, “Is this a job interview?”
“Oh, we already got the job,” we laughed. “We’re best friends.”
What would you say are the three most important things that make your friendship what it is?
Heidi: I’m going to say honesty is #1. And a mutual respect for each other as people. Like I feel like we admire so much about each other. And the safety to be or say anything. I truly believe I could call and tell you anything, and you’d be there for me.
Kelle: Well you know that’s true.
Heidi: What’s your three?
Kelle: Vulnerability is huge for me. I think we’ve both revealed our most unattractive qualities to each other and exposed the things that we don’t love about ourselves. We’ve seen each others’ houses trashed, snapped at our kids in front of each other, talked about failures, cried, admitted we’ve got messes. Once you get that out of the way, you don’t waste any time performing in a friendship to portray an image you want a friend to see–that we’re smart or good moms or funny or successful or have put-together houses or whatever. That’s exhausting and wastes so much space in a friendship that could be spent investing in real connection. We’ve both opened the junk drawers in our lives, so to speak, for the other one to see, and we’re both still here, completely unaffected by those messy parts about each other. So every forward step in our friendship can now be spent loving, supporting, writing stories, making memories, having fun and really being there for each other. I also think our friendship wouldn’t be what it is today if we hadn’t gone through hard things together. We’ve weathered disagreements in our friendship as well as some really hard things in life together. I know I’m making this way too long of an answer here, but I’d say the last and maybe most important thing is this deep desire for each other to succeed and be our best. It’s one thing to show up for each other when we’re down or laughing about the messes, but sometimes I think friendship is proven most real and beautiful when women wholeheartedly support and celebrate each other when we succeed. My life is happier when you succeed and are truly happy. If you want to be president, I’ll stake my yard with “Vote for Heidi” signs. If you have a huge victory happen or a dream come true, I want to be the first one you text so I can show up at your house to jump up and down and celebrate with you.
What trait do you most admire in each other?
Kelle: This one’s easy, and I think anyone who knows you would say the same. It’s your empathy. I’ve never met someone who thinks about others’ situations more than you. And you don’t just think about it. You do something about it. You are so good about asking the question “How can I make that person feel loved?”
Heidi: This one’s easy for me too. It’s your joy. Your zeal for life. Like you’re really fucking happy about a lot of shit. It’s refreshing.
When you meet new people, what is it about someone that makes you want to be their friend immediately?
Heidi: Good energy.
Kelle: Feeling inspired by them–like I could learn from them.
I have a hard time in friendships when…
Heidi: …people aren’t vulnerable with me. But I’m learning you have to earn vulnerability. I expect it right off the bat, and that’s not very fair.
Kelle: Ughhh. So true. Sometimes I think when we focus on vulnerability so much, we set ridiculous standards. Like a woman shouldn’t have to shake your hand and blurt out, “My life’s a mess, I yell at my kids, and my breath stinks in the morning” in order for me to like her. I don’t want to misinterpret vulnerability for “Give me dirt.” And I definitely don’t want to be a woman who needs to hear weaknesses about another woman in order to accept her. A beautiful woman whose kids listen to her when she barely whispers “Time to leave the park” and walks over to a car that’s not littered with snacks? That doesn’t mean she’s not vulnerable or likable.
What’s an immediate friendship turn off? Like you have no interest in developing a friendship if…
Heidi: People are mean. Hearing someone make fun of someone. Group gossip. If a group of women is talking about another woman, I’m out. Not that we don’t ever vent to each other about someone who was mean or a little off or whatever. But we do it in the safety between just the two of us, we don’t waste a lot of energy on it, and we keep it focused on our reaction and feelings rather than ripping the other person apart. But that collective group talking about another woman? No.
Kelle: Same. We’ve talked about this one a lot.
You’re both super busy moms. What’s your key for staying close?
Heidi: We talk pretty much every day, right? Even if we don’t see each other.
Kelle: I don’t even think about it any more. It’s just habit–the minute the kids are dropped off at school, I get back in the car and call you to start out my day. And then maybe three other calls throughout the day.
Heidi: I think spontaneity is important too. We know how hard it is to create perfect pockets of time for friend dates, so we take what we can get. A lot of “Stop, drop, and roll” dates where one of us invites the other one over or out to grab a drink and the other one says yes without having to clean the house or take a shower.
Kelle: And I feel like we’re good with creativity when it comes to making space to get together. We text each other when we’re going to Target to see if the other one wants to go, and we’ve had some of our best times together, pushing carts side by side in the produce aisle. In fact, I’m pretty sure we’ve stood in the home section for an hour straight, crying and talking about life.
Heidi: I can distinctly remember at least twice that we’ve done that. They should just make a table for us to sit down there.
Kelle: We’ve also accompanied each other on work dates just for fun. And we have a lot of post preschool drop-off coffee dates, even if they’re quick.
Do you guys ever judge each other?
Kelle: I originally said no to this, but you totally called me out.
Heidi: We totally judge.
Kelle: I think there’s so much in our women culture right now that celebrates supporting each other, high-fiving each other, lifting each other up, praising each others’ successes, accepting differences and NOT judging (which–YES!–is the ultimate goal and absolutely what I seek to be in a community of women)–that my immediate response is “I do that! I support women! I don’t judge!” But that’s not completely honest, and I want to pay attention to my humanness. I don’t want to feel shame about real, normal feelings or pretend that I never feel them. I judge sometimes. I judge people I love. Sometimes my judgments are warranted or simply identifying things I do or don’t want for my life. But it’s more about what I do with my judgments (they are always more about me than the person I’m judging) and how I analyze my feelings rather than the idea that I’m out there with a pasted-on smile, high-fiving and “You Go, Girl!”-ing every single thing any woman does. I love Amy Poehler’s advice on this: “That is the motto women should constantly repeat over and over again: ‘Good for her; Not for me.'”
Heidi: I think in any deep friendship, you do end up judging. That might be a really shitty thing to say, but that’s sometimes what pushes us to be honest and real and helps us to be better. We feel the freedom to say to each other, “I think you’re being too hard on your kid” or “You need to get your shit together.” That’s burned us before too though. We’ve said it at the wrong time or have pushed too far, and it’s hurt us. That seldom happens, but it does. But I like the fact that we feel the freedom to call each other out. I think we’ve helped each other be the best versions of ourselves.
Kelle: I think we’ve also earned permission to judge. We have so many years and stories behind our friendship and an underlying foundation of love and wanting the best for each other that we know we can be honest with each other. We have some unspoken rules too. We know that our friendship is too precious to ever let something take that away. If we’ve hurt each other in any way, we don’t do that thing where we get awkward or don’t talk to each other. We make efforts to work things out quickly.
Do your husbands support your friendship?
Kelle: 100%. I think they both know that we are better humans, better moms and better wives because of our friendship. And I don’t put so much pressure on Brett to be my “everything” and fulfill all these areas in my life because friendship (among other things) helps fulfill them. I’m more than just my marriage. Brett’s said many times, “I’m so glad you had Heidi to talk about that with, because I’d be clueless.”
Heidi: Believe me, our husbands’ lives are better with us in the picture. They benefit, and they know it. There are things we do for each other that let them off the hook. And they know we are fair sounding boards. I’ve complained about Jeff before, and you’ve stood up for him; likewise, you’ve vented about something Brett did and I’ve called you out and pointed out what he did right.
Kelle: I think every relationship is different. What we have works for us and our families. We take our kids on trips together to fun crazy places our husbands might not be that into, and people might judge, but it works for us.
What’s your favorite friend memory?
Heidi: We have so many, but I know we’re going to answer this the same way.
Kelle: What, Nella’s birth?
Heidi: Yes. It was such a raw, precious time, and I think friendship goes to a new level when you get to be there for someone when they are hurting in the way that you were and to be present to the love that was unfolding.
Kelle: You literally stayed in that hospital for four days straight. I’ll never ever forget the way you showed up.
Heidi: I remember feeling at the time like I had some kind of superpower. If I think back to that time and how it felt, I thought I could protect you from any negative energy coming in.
Kelle: I actually think God waived the earthly filter and really did give you that superpower then.
Favorite things you do for each other that make good friendship tips?
K: We give each other pep talks before either of us goes someplace that makes us feel uncomfortable or intimidated. I love the texts you start madly sending right when I need them: “Just shine your white light. Focus on the light that you want to bring to the room and the way you want people to feel. Your light is so bright. You got this!” They are such powerful texts to receive.
H: I got that from Oprah, you know. How about picking up each other’s cameras and taking pictures of each other without being asked. So many of the photos of me with my kids were taken by you.
K: Same here. And I love them so much. I love how I’ll go to edit photos after a party, and there will be 100 that I didn’t take. You are so good about that.
H: We are good about loving each other’s moms. When our moms are visiting and we take them to a social event or have people over, we always support each other. You’re so good about making my mom feel at home and talking to her, and I always make sure to sit with your mom and find out more about her life. I love your mom.
K: And I love yours. I love the comfort I get from sending my “You know the drill” text when I’m on a plane and it’s about to take off. I know if anything were to happen, you’d implement “the plan.” Take over. Make sure my kids know I love them. Clean the house before the mourners arrive. Screen any potential new wife to make sure I’d approve.
H: We pick up each others’ kids. Like when you forgot to pick up Dash from preschool a couple weeks ago and I texted, “Dash is in my van. You forgot him.”
K: I love that being your friend means a life contract of being there for my kids. Whenever I have a fleeting worry about Nella being accepted, you always say, “Life contract, Kelle. Every party, graduation, life milestone, you have my family in party hats cheering her name. That’s five of us which can fill a room, so any worry that no one will show up should be non-existent.”
H: And you do the same for mine. Honestly, I think loving each other’s kids is one of the best things you can do for a friend.
K: The meals you make for people. Food is such a wonderful love language, and you do that for people so well. And the goody bags of treats you drop off before road trips.
H: We buffer each other’s parties. Like if there’s a new person coming who doesn’t know anyone else at the party and I’m busy entertaining, I know you will make sure she feels welcome. You’ll represent me. I don’t even have to ask.
K: I can’t tell you how many times new friends I’ve introduced to a big group of people have said later, “Your friend Heidi? She’s so nice and easy to talk to.” Actually, now that I think of it, most people like you better than me once they meet you.
H: That’s not true.
K: No, it is, and I’m totally fine with it. And I think one of my favorite things we do for each other is saying yes. All these crazy ideas we’ve had, calling each other last minute to see if we want to get in the car and drive two hours to explore some city. We’re good at saying yes, and I think so many of our memories and bonding moments are because of our yesses.
H: But I still wish I would have said no to that crappy hotel you thought was “charming” on that road trip with the kids. Oh my God, that was disgusting. I should have never listened to you.
K: Hey, you can’t win them all. You know there are a billion more things we could list here, but we have to end this somewhere, right?
H: To be continued…
K: In real life.
Have a question or thought about friendship? Do you have a best friend or a story about connecting and building meaningful relationships with women? One of my favorite things to dig into and talk about is creating intimate friendships with women. Tell me your thoughts, your stories, your favorite thing about your best friend or tips for staying close.
LOVE this! Everyone should be blessed with a girlfriend of this caliber. The world would be a much better place 🙂 Xoxo, K&E
I’m curious about the origins of your friendship. How/when did you meet?
I’ve always wondered that also.
Yes! This!
I had lived here in Florida a week, knew no one, and another teacher at the school where I was hired set me up on a blind friend date with her cousin, knowing we were both from Michigan and having a feeling we’d hit it off. I walked into a restaurant looking for a girl wearing a purple shirt, found her and 4 hours later they closed the restaurant while we were still talking. The rest, as they say, is history.
A blind friend date?! I love that idea so much! I need someone to set me up, lol!
Me too!
Love this! Thank you both for sharing and opening up. Your honesty and love for each other is refreshing.
I love this so much! Thank you for sharing about your friendship! I am at the stage in my life that I am trying to cultivate and maintain great friendships and I need all the advice, ideas, and support I can get! Thank you! And to one day having a Heidi 🙂
I had a best friend, like 20+ years in the making. She judged, and I reacted harshly. I quickly backed down and apologized, but she never did…We were both in the middle of a lot of really tough things. I miss her. It’s been 8 months, and I’m heartbroken. Reading this was so hard, but gives me a lot to think about. Thanks for sharing yourselves.
20 years? Why not call/text/email her? That’s such a long time to be friends to end it now. I hope you guys get in touch soon!!
Thanks, yes, she was my maid of honor in my wedding and that was 17 years ago. I did email her, apologized more… said I was devastated… she responded that she was too, but didn’t have time to respond then and would later, but she never did. I haven’t heard from her, but her siblings have unfriended me on Facebook, so she extended the breakup if you will…I don’t really know if anything more I do just becomes pathetic, I’m not sure I’m supposed to have try harder than this when she seems fine with it. I don’t know.
I am in a situation just like yours and it hurts so much. We were best friends since 8th grade. We are now 42. It ended over a year ago. We call each other’s parents mom and dad. She is still in touch with my brother and cousins through social
Media. My dad even emailed her to tell her how heartbroken I was. She said she would write more in detail later and never did ????
You two are so blessed to have each other. I “had” a Heidi … but when I got sober she left and it broke my heart. She never spoke to me again and that was 13 years ago. I cried for days but knew it was better to be sober for my kids without my bestie than to start drinking again just to have my friend back. Now at almost 55 years old I have yet to have a friend that close. I have friends … but I don’t think I’ll ever have that experience again. Perhaps deep down I am protecting that part of me – I don’t ever want to hurt that bad again.
I love this! As women we naturally seek support, friendship, and connections that cannot be shared or experienced in any other way. The thing that impresses me is your husband’s support and encouragement in the friendship. It’s wonderful they understand the depth of your friendship together and how much your life thrives because of each other. Thank you for the uplift, friend.
Love this! Just curious…do you have pictures of the two of you when you first became friends? That would be fun to see!
Ha. Yes. And I meant to dig some up, but they’re on an old hard drive that’s not connected to my computer right now.
“Dash is in my van.” So funny.
In enneagrams, are you a 7w8? And Heidi a 2? I envy 2’s giving and thoughtful spirit.
It’s awesome that you are both confident that you are not physically moving away from each other. We seem to have to leave all our awesome friends or they move away. Thanks for sharing.
And if you are a 7, I envy the drive and energy!
Love this and it brought tears to my eyes, however, you didn’t answer a big question…..how did the two of you meet??? What is the story there and did you hit it off right away or no?
Oh, I agree. I’d love to know how you two met and if it was an instant friendship.
Oh, this was a good one! Close, not sister, friendships are the biggest blessings in life. My best friend from childhood & I are still close as ever. My best friend from high school is still one of my closest friends today. As an adult, I lost my best friend to cancer. It was soul crushing. Her husband is one of our dearest friends & our mutual friend has stepped into the position of my current best friend. It’s that free to be who we are comfort & safety that is so needed in my friendships. I have one question (thank God I don’t have to deal with this)…how would you handle it if one of you were a Trump supporter…lol??
One of my favorite posts. Thanks for sharing.
I loved this post so much. I’m so lucky to have a best friend just like this. <3
Ah, this is such a fun to do! You are blessed to have a BBF that you can rely on. xo
http://www.cantiquejoice.com
I LOVED this post. My “Heidi” is currently living in Alaska (I’m in Arizona), so we aren’t able to spend as much in-person time as we’d like to, but so many pieces of this post resonated with me. She loves my kids fiercely (and she doesn’t even really “like kids”!), is a constant supporter of my dreams, and would drop everything in a heartbeat if I needed her by my side. I love hearing about women supporting other women like this — building each other up to take on life!
You are both so lucky to have each other. This made me tear up.
Beautiful! And fun too!
What a lovely post and friendship you two share! I am so grateful for my women friends. My husband is my best-bestie, but I truly believe women need other women. My 6 week old daughter has been back in the hospital now for 6 days. On Sunday, my friend Myriam stopped by with a hospital goodie bag. Yesterday, my friend Mary stopped by with lunch and time for a nice chat. Today my friends Cathy and Niki stopped by to visit for 2 1/2 hours, to laugh and cry with me. I didn’t ask these friends to come, but they showed up for me and my little girly and I am so grateful for that! I’m lucky to be in a circle of amazing women, that are so welcoming to new friends too! Whenever someone new moves into town, we always reach out to them and bring them in. I live across the continent from all of my extended family, so these friends and their families have become my family. Also, my childhood bestie always has my back even though she also lives across the continent from me. Sometimes months pass between our interacting with one another, but we always pick up where we left off and are each others’ cheerleaders in our challenges of life.
Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this interview with us. It made me think about my own friends, my sisters, my mother. What I can do better. What I am already good at. Thank you!!
Oh how I love this post! It’s my BFF and I to a “T”!
So many thoughts on this one! Your opener reminded me of a Mindy Kaling quote, “Best friend isn’t a person, it’s a tier.” I’m not sure if she said that as herself or as a character in a show, but it made me stop and think. I have a best friend (Emily! She is the best!) whom I’ve known since 9th grade, but I also have a circle of best friends from different walks and times in my life that embody the idea of a tier or status. I also wanted to introduce you to Kahlil Gibran (if you haven’t heard of him already) and his words on friendship from “The Prophet” (one of my all-time favorite books).
“And a youth said, “Speak to us of Friendship.”
Your friend is your needs answered.
He is your field which you sow with love and reap with thanksgiving.
And he is your board and your fireside.
For you come to him with your hunger, and you seek him for peace.
When your friend speaks his mind you fear not the “nay” in your own mind, nor do you withhold the “ay.”
And when he is silent your heart ceases not to listen to his heart;
For without words, in friendship, all thoughts, all desires, all expectations are born and shared, with joy that is unacclaimed.
When you part from your friend, you grieve not;
For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain.
And let there be no purpose in friendship save the deepening of the spirit.
For love that seeks aught but the disclosure of its own mystery is not love but a net cast forth: and only the unprofitable is caught.
And let your best be for your friend.
If he must know the ebb of your tide, let him know its flood also.
For what is your friend that you should seek him with hours to kill?
Seek him always with hours to live.
For it is his to fill your need, but not your emptiness.
And in the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures.
For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed.”
any ideas on what to do with a friend while she comes to town to visit ME Chicago to lil old Tucson
i am trying to be a good friend but am severly intoverted . any help or advice is appreciated.
Your friend is coming to visit YOU, so hopefully that takes some of the pressure off to entertain her during her stay. 🙂 I do enjoy a good walkabout – if the weather is nice are there any parks or gardens you could go visit? Or if it’s not nice maybe you could check out a local museum. Then you could spend time together but have something to focus on besides each other, and wouldn’t require too much interaction with strangers. Maybe you could plan a nice meal to prepare together, or just ask her if there is anything specific she is looking forward to for her trip. No matter what you do, I hope you have a great time together!
I’m curious how you both deal with envy and competitiveness within a friendship? I strive to recognize those feelings as I have them and let them go so I can be genuinely happy for my all my pals. But, sometimes they set me back so hard. I especially dislike when I feel competitive over my children’s talents and achievements versus my friend’s children’s talents and achievements… you know?
great question! Kelle would love an answer to that!
Such a great question! With Heidi, we’ve been in it so long that competition isn’t really present outside of healthy push-each-other-further stuff–although she did take the Christmas cookie bake-off title last year after a lot of smack talk between both of us–it was hilarious. We are very honest about envy. Sometimes it feels good just to say “I feel so jealous right now–I mean, I’m happy for you, but man I want that for my life too” and talk about it further. It’s so refreshing when people just lay these feelings on the table so it’s not shameful or hidden. As for children’s talents/achievements competition with parents–I’ve seen it so many places, and it’s awful because parents are putting SO much pressure on their kids by doing it. Sometimes it means choosing one amazing friend to be able to say everything you want to say about your kid with trust that it will be well received but not doing it in a larger group of friends. And training our little brains to understand our kids are who they are, we accept them, their accomplishments are not reflections of us, they stand alone–and we can smile and listen to parents go on and on about how well their child is doing and how talented they are and quietly remember that it has nothing to do with our own kid. Apples and oranges. Each one is on a different path and we celebrate their path (but I know it’s easier said than done).
Thank you for sharing! I love this! I have been blessed to have a few very close friends with this type of relationship. My best friend I met 20+ years ago as a freshman in college, and I love that we are so real together and how much she adores my crazy kids. She’s in California and I’m in Germany, so it can get very lonely without her. Thank god for technology!
Dude a dating type site for best friends, start one and let me work for you.
Could not stop crying while reading this! There is literally a puddle at my feet! Love you and Heidi! What a beautiful friendship!
Ummmm y’all need to make mugs “you’re the Heidi to my Kelle”
“You’re the kelle to my Heidi”
Xoxoxo
You’re killing me. xo I love this.
Love what I never started ?